Is it best practice to put both the SQL & MSDTC groups on the same node?

In Rodney R. Fournier's blog it states:
"If MSDTC is used with SQL, you should ensure it is in it's own group,
on it's own disk resource. Lastly, Microsoft recommends to run the
MSDTC & SQL group on the same node, and that the MSDTC is brought
online first when the groups are moved."
("http://msmvps.com/clustering/archive/2004/10/25/16672.aspx").
I have a couple of questions about this but let first list my
assumptions.
Best:
For high performance, installing an MSDTC Resource to it in its own
group. This group should have its own disk and IP resources.
Good:
The next best method is to put the MSDTC resource in the cluster or
quorum group.
Worse:
Put the MSDTC resource in SQL Group.
What are the reasons for running the MSDTC & SQL group on the same
node, beyond these potential Win2003 cluster issues listed in:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;889706
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/821751/
?
If DTC is in the quorum group is it still best to put SQL and quorum
group on the same node?
Our system admin is religious about putting the SQL group on a
different node from the Quorum & DTC groups. Is there a best practice
here or a KB I can point to?
Are there any implications not having SQL dependent of MSDTC starting
first (MSDTC is brought online first when the groups are moved)
beyond the possibility of not being able to start a distributed
transaction?
Replies below...
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
"Sean" <spowell71@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126723915.556530.64310@.g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> In Rodney R. Fournier's blog it states:
> "If MSDTC is used with SQL, you should ensure it is in it's own group,
> on it's own disk resource. Lastly, Microsoft recommends to run the
> MSDTC & SQL group on the same node, and that the MSDTC is brought
> online first when the groups are moved."
> ("http://msmvps.com/clustering/archive/2004/10/25/16672.aspx").
> I have a couple of questions about this but let first list my
> assumptions.
> Best:
> For high performance, installing an MSDTC Resource to it in its own
> group. This group should have its own disk and IP resources.
>
Correct.

> Good:
> The next best method is to put the MSDTC resource in the cluster or
> quorum group.
>
Correct.

> Worse:
> Put the MSDTC resource in SQL Group.
>
Yuck! Correct.

> What are the reasons for running the MSDTC & SQL group on the same
> node, beyond these potential Win2003 cluster issues listed in:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;889706
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/821751/
> ?
>
Correct, pre SP1 for Windows Server 2003 MSDTC has issues! Lots of issues.
The Q is correct.

> If DTC is in the quorum group is it still best to put SQL and quorum
> group on the same node?
>
If you can, yes!

> Our system admin is religious about putting the SQL group on a
> different node from the Quorum & DTC groups. Is there a best practice
> here or a KB I can point to?
>
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;889706
Remember, SQL does not require MSDTC. You only need it if you application
will use it.

> Are there any implications not having SQL dependent of MSDTC starting
> first (MSDTC is brought online first when the groups are moved)
> beyond the possibility of not being able to start a distributed
> transaction?
>
Isn't that enough?
|||What are the arguments against these types of statements?
Having Quorum & DTC groups on a different node than the SQL group
a) has a load balancing effect, i.e. the SQL group will have the full
physical resources of the node.
b) enables the failover of SQL group happen be quicker cause Quorum &
DTC groups are already on the failover node.
|||http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;889706 pretty much
covers it.
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
"Sean" <spowell71@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126789871.591787.32620@.g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> What are the arguments against these types of statements?
> Having Quorum & DTC groups on a different node than the SQL group
> a) has a load balancing effect, i.e. the SQL group will have the full
> physical resources of the node.
> b) enables the failover of SQL group happen be quicker cause Quorum &
> DTC groups are already on the failover node.
>
|||I had this problem, MSTDC not available so I put MSDTC in the same group as
SQLServer AND made SQLServer dependant on MSDTC Works fine now.
Nik Marshall-Blank MCSD/MCDBA
"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@.die.spam.die.nw-america.com> wrote in
message news:%23sx340fuFHA.3188@.TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;889706 pretty much
> covers it.
> Cheers,
> Rod
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
> http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
> http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
>
> "Sean" <spowell71@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1126789871.591787.32620@.g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>

Is DTC required in a SQL 2000/Windows 2003 cluster ?

Hi,
If the SQL environment is not going to use distributed transactions, is it
still necessary to configure a DTC resource on the cluster ?
Thanks
In theory, you can run SQL 2000 clustered without DTC. In practice, it can
limit functionality. I generally configure a DTC resource, just to simplify
installation and maintenance.
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"SteveO" <SteveO@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:332351AB-0806-4F9A-94DF-C5F929F5B7D0@.microsoft.com...
> Hi,
> If the SQL environment is not going to use distributed transactions, is it
> still necessary to configure a DTC resource on the cluster ?
> Thanks
|||Yes. You will always configured DTC into the cluster. There are other
services which will use it.
Mike
http://www.solidqualitylearning.com
Disclaimer: This communication is an original work and represents my sole
views on the subject. It does not represent the views of any other person
or entity either by inference or direct reference.
"SteveO" <SteveO@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:332351AB-0806-4F9A-94DF-C5F929F5B7D0@.microsoft.com...
> Hi,
> If the SQL environment is not going to use distributed transactions, is it
> still necessary to configure a DTC resource on the cluster ?
> Thanks
|||I hate to nitpick. But technically, you don't have to if you don't need it.
Linchi
"Michael Hotek" <mike@.solidqualitylearning.com> wrote in message
news:%23YUT2d2IGHA.2912@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Yes. You will always configured DTC into the cluster. There are other
> services which will use it.
> --
> Mike
> http://www.solidqualitylearning.com
> Disclaimer: This communication is an original work and represents my sole
> views on the subject. It does not represent the views of any other person
> or entity either by inference or direct reference.
> "SteveO" <SteveO@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:332351AB-0806-4F9A-94DF-C5F929F5B7D0@.microsoft.com...
>
|||Well, you'd have to take that up with the failover clustering team. It is
their explicit recommendation for ALL clusters that you will install a
failover cluster instance in.
Not having it there is going to cause several errors during the upgrade as
well as throwing additional errors during a fresh install. I haven't tested
enough permutations to say whether it is needed or not, so at this point, I
tend to trust the people who have spent thousands of hours testing hundreds
of different configurations. They know the code a lot better than me since
they wrote it. If that's the recommendation, I'm sticking into in this
case, because I have no way of proving that it shouldn't be followed.
Mike
http://www.solidqualitylearning.com
Disclaimer: This communication is an original work and represents my sole
views on the subject. It does not represent the views of any other person
or entity either by inference or direct reference.
"Linchi Shea" <linchi_shea@.NOSPAMml.om> wrote in message
news:%23Dc$G%238IGHA.2064@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>I hate to nitpick. But technically, you don't have to if you don't need it.
> Linchi
> "Michael Hotek" <mike@.solidqualitylearning.com> wrote in message
> news:%23YUT2d2IGHA.2912@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
|||I have 15 SQL Clusters in Production without MSDTC in the cluster, the local
service is disabled. No issues. Our application simply does not use it!
Cheers,
Rod
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
"Michael Hotek" <mike@.solidqualitylearning.com> wrote in message
news:uuCH0K9IGHA.1132@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Well, you'd have to take that up with the failover clustering team. It is
> their explicit recommendation for ALL clusters that you will install a
> failover cluster instance in.
> Not having it there is going to cause several errors during the upgrade as
> well as throwing additional errors during a fresh install. I haven't
> tested enough permutations to say whether it is needed or not, so at this
> point, I tend to trust the people who have spent thousands of hours
> testing hundreds of different configurations. They know the code a lot
> better than me since they wrote it. If that's the recommendation, I'm
> sticking into in this case, because I have no way of proving that it
> shouldn't be followed.
> --
> Mike
> http://www.solidqualitylearning.com
> Disclaimer: This communication is an original work and represents my sole
> views on the subject. It does not represent the views of any other person
> or entity either by inference or direct reference.
>
> "Linchi Shea" <linchi_shea@.NOSPAMml.om> wrote in message
> news:%23Dc$G%238IGHA.2064@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
>